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Cover of Amadeus magazine, No. 89 (October 2000)
Don Quijote de las Ramblas / Don Quixote of Las Ramblas.
By Juan Antonio LlorenteInterview published in Amadeus magazine, No. 89 (October 2000)
Premiering an opera is always a challenge. The Liceu has taken on this challenge at the opening of its current season with Don Quijote in Barcelona. In the following pages, some of the protagonists talk about this adventure.
José Luis Turina and Justo Navarro are responsible for the music and the text, respectively, of the opera D.Q. El Quijote in Barcelona, the world premiere with which the Liceu kicks off the second season of its new phase. The production is backed by La Fura dels Baus, who, after the success achieved with the staging of three scenic cantatas, has managed to bring their most ambitious idea to life.
Reinventing "El Quijote"
Justo Navarro has approached the libretto, says the composer, in a very libertarian and anarchic manner, without at any time attempting to tackle the Cervantine theme in a conventional way. We were trying -Turina clarifies- to offer a different perspective; to tell another story in which Quijote is present, but which is just that: another story. The solution that most entertained us was not the adventures of the knight, but the book of Cervantes itself, a marvel in both substance and form. We leaned more towards the latter, the way Cervantes mocks everything: he enters the novel, exits it, makes you believe the author is someone else…
Of the admirable things that the extreme Don Quijote claimed to have seen in the deep cave of Montesinos, whose impossibility and grandeur make this adventure seem apocryphal. This is how Cervantes titles Chapter 23 in the second part of his novel, the starting point of the opera. Don Quijote returns from the cave telling the strangest things, so unbelievable that the writer himself distances himself from what is written, to the point of denying his authorship. This image is so fantastic -says Turina- that you have to wait for Joyce to find something similar.
The authors have only considered one episode and have reinvented it: In the work, Cervantes leaves Don Quijote descending into the cave; at the Liceu, he appears entering it, which in reality is an auction house in Geneva in the year three thousand and something, trapped in time by a machine designed to attract any object from the past. Programmed to find a copy of the book, it turns out to bring none other than Don Quijote himself. In other words, he actually ends up in the future. From that moment, he is auctioned off, bought by a multimillionaire, and gifted to his daughters. But they take pity on him and send him back to what they believe is his time: to the moment when he is most remembered. But that moment is none other than the year 2004, when a congress on El Quijote is being held in Barcelona. The nobleman appears there, causing an uproar, even among the forces of nature, which devastate Barcelona. We then return to the novel when Don Quijote wants to go to Zaragoza. But upon learning that Avellaneda's novel has appeared, he decides to go to Barcelona, according to our version, to undo the mess caused by his previous visit, which we have invented.
Throughout his career, he has received various awards, such as the International Composition Competition of the Valencia Conservatory of Music (1981) for his work Punto de encuentro, and the IV Reina Sofía International Prize for Ocnos (1986). José Luis Turina has also received commissions from various official organizations and numerous soloists from Spain and abroad. In January 1992, his Violin Concerto was included in the inaugural program of the events celebrating Madrid as the European Capital of Culture. From 1981 to 1985, he taught harmony, counterpoint, and composition at the Professional Conservatory of Music in Cuenca. Since 1985, he has held the position of professor of harmony at the Royal Conservatory of Music, and since 1992, at the "Arturo Soria" Professional Conservatory of Music, both in Madrid. In 1989 and 1992, he was invited by various universities in the United States, resulting in his Three Sonnets, a work commissioned by Colgate University (Hamilton, New York). In 1995, he was commissioned by the Círculo de Bellas Artes in Madrid to create a stage-musical composition, La raya en el agua, which premiered in 1996, the year he was also awarded the National Music Prize by the Ministry of Education and Culture.
- But it is my first opera with a capital "O", that idea that tempts every composer and that I had been nurturing for a very long time. My first work in this vein dates back to 1979-1980, when I was still in my final year of composition. I wrote Ligazón, based on a text from Valle-Inclán's Retablo de la avaricia, la lujuria y la muerte. I thought it was an outstanding opera libretto, where nothing needed to be altered, and except for a few superfluous adjectives, I didn't have to make any adaptations because it worked wonderfully well with the great musicality with which Valle treats the language. That became a chamber opera of about forty-five minutes, with an instrumental ensemble of 11 players and a group of four voices on stage. It premiered in Cuenca in 1982 and then toured extensively in the provinces with considerable success. It was a magnificent experience that confirmed for me that, in the world of opera, thinking about something larger, I was still far from possessing the technical and aesthetic capabilities at that time. It was a very complex world to approach lightly. From a global perspective, we could consider Ligazón as an attempt, a sketch of something that I then set aside for a long period, always thinking about creating an opera, which is the dream of my life.
- What led to that hiatus?
- Composing Ligazón I had many doubts in that crucial aspect of the relationship between music and text because opera is theater, it is literature, it is poetry, and it is music. But at the same time, it is none of those things, and it is all of them. Each of the parts has to give up a bit of itself to serve the general symbiosis. This requires a great deal of creative maturity, which I lacked at that time. I wasn't as concerned with the solutions to stage problems as I was with the aspect of text treatment. So, for many years, I didn't compose anything with text and instead devoted myself to studying in my own way, in a very disorganized and self-taught manner, a world that has always fascinated me, the world of spoken language. A world directly and indirectly related to music through intonation, rhythm, accent, and that sort of things. I continued until I drew my own conclusions, which have helped me approach the music-text relationship in the way I believe I should, with my own personal style.
- When did that spark reignite?
- When I felt more confident in that relationship, I composed a series of vocal and choral works. In 1996, an opera proposal came up for the reopening of the Sala Fernando de Rojas at the Círculo de Bellas Artes in Madrid. I dismissed the idea of the opera because I still didn't feel ready to undertake it, and it became a stage-musical spectacle titled La raya en el agua, premiered by Grupo Círculo, expanded with two percussionists, piano, and more brass than they usually have, up to a total of fifteen musicians. This spectacle, which integrated many elements, is what I consider my first profound experience with the stage. From that point on, everything has just fallen into place.
- The members of La Fura dels Baus didn't see that performance, but they heard about it, and a few months later, they contacted me to have initial discussions about an operatic project. I felt that it was the right time to fully commit myself.
- And going from those fifteen performers in "La raya en el agua" to the large-scale structure of "El Quijote"... How many musicians will there be?
- There will be sixty musicians in the pit, and another sixty in the choir on stage, in addition to the soloists. So, this is indeed that capital "O" opera that I had always hoped to create someday.
- Is that leap a traumatic one?
- It isn't if you follow the saying, When you enjoy something, it doesn't hurt. But there is something about it that always impresses you because, indeed, it's a very big leap, although I had been mentally preparing for this for many years. I must also say that working with the orchestra didn't intimidate me, because it's one of the things I enjoy the most.
- Was the theme imposed by La Fura dels Baus?
- Only suggested. They had just finished La Atlántida, were preparing The Martyrdom of Saint Sebastian, and were already thinking about Mortier's proposal to do The Damnation of Faust at the 1999 Salzburg Festival. Three oratorios. And now they wanted to create an opera. But not a repertoire piece, but one composed specifically for the occasion. In our first meeting, which took place in the winter of 1996-1997, the first theme they proposed to me was something related to El Quijote. At that time, I'm not sure if they were aware of Halffter's project. I believe they were, and because they are natural provocateurs, their intention was to push for Spain to present itself to the world at the turn of the millennium with two versions of El Quijote: one by an established composer like Cristóbal, and another by someone from the same generation as La Fura.
- I'm generally open to everything. The thing is, commissions for pure music, whether symphonic or chamber, don't come with as many conditions. It's a different story when words are involved. In the case of La raya en el agua, for example, it took a lot of effort to convince those who commissioned it that I didn't want to create an opera, which was the only thing they saw as viable. In the end, they were delighted with my proposal, which was much more agile and entertaining. What I mean is that I'm open to suggestions as long as I'm in sync with the person commissioning the work. If not, I try to steer it in my direction.
- How is it possible that such a universal character has been so seldom and so late embraced by Spanish music?
- This might need to be studied from a sociological perspective. It's true that El Quijote has inspired a lot of music, but in opera, we may have had reservations because of the saying, No one is a prophet in their own land. On the other hand, El Quijote has been overused as a stereotype for export, so from an intellectual or artistic approach, it's been considered a figure better left untouched to avoid falling into Spanish clichés. I don't know; I'm not the most qualified person to answer that. But at this point, we've already overcome the complexes and shame about our own culture, which has been one of Spain's big problems.
- Is there a hierarchy, or is this Quijote a global idea from La Fura that you've become an accomplice to?
- The most beautiful thing about this adventure is that it's a three-way collaboration unlike anything else in music history, as far as I know. I say this boldly, but we've had a very interesting creative synchronization. Normally, the composer writes the music based on a libretto, and a stage director adds the staging without prior collaboration with the composer. Here, it's been the exact opposite. In our case, over the three years it took to create this opera, all of us involved were in constant contact.
- It was said that in the "Quijote de Madrid" it took a while to synchronize the concepts of music and staging. How did you resolve that in your case?
- It came together as we went along. We met frequently, more so as time went on, and the entire composition followed the order of the events that will be seen: first act, second act, and third act. I can say that when I finished the second act, I still didn't know what was going to happen in the third because I didn't have the libretto, which was being written as I composed the music. We had the first act, and we made a rough computer model. It was crude, but enough for La Fura to get an idea of the musical direction. Then we met, listened, and discussed. The process undoubtedly influenced Justo Navarro's work on the second act, just as it influenced their staging. That's how ideas for the following acts emerged... That's why I speak of a true three-way collaboration. I can't say what came first and what came later. The first thing, of course, was the idea of El Quijote, and from there, a creative flow emerged in which I didn't write a single note until Justo gave me the text to write it on, because doing it any other way would have been madness. And the final staging couldn't be done until the score was finished.
- What weighs more in the character when creating the music, the text or your own idealization?
- A bit of both. Everything is driven by the situation that Justo creates with the story he wants to tell. The essence of this Quijote is the drama of a character taken out of his time and placed into another. That's the core of the action, which allows me to explore something I've applied throughout my music: the eternal conflict between tradition and modernity.
- Has La Fura intervened in the music or the text?
- Not at all. Of course, there have been moments where decisions had to be made. For example, I originally thought that since the show, at just over two hours, wasn't too long, it could be done in one go. So the transitions I wrote between the different acts didn't account for any breaks, especially since we had discussed changing the scene with the curtain down or by darkening the stage. But it turns out that the set design for the second act is so complex that it requires a twenty-minute pause, which forced me to adjust what I had done. But the set is so beautiful that I don't mind whether it's twenty minutes or half an hour. I'd wait as long as necessary for that set to be ready.
- What will happen during that break?
- I'm sure that during those twenty minutes, something will happen, either in the hall or the lobby...
- Many surprises?
- I think there will be a few. It certainly isn't an aggressive or provocative show, in the line that La Fura had us accustomed to. This time, they're more aligned with the classical tradition.
- The work we've done together. The composer's job is usually very solitary and has an ungrateful side because you know you might not hear what you've written for a long time. Being able to work with people from literature and the performing arts is very gratifying. With La raya en el agua, that was one of my most satisfying impressions, and now it has been confirmed again, elevated to the nth degree.
- What has been the hardest part?
- Probably working under the pressure of not knowing what's going to happen next. If I had had the libretto from the beginning, if I could have composed with a finished libretto, I would likely have approached it differently.
- In this inevitable Quijote vs. Quijote confrontation, are you ready to outdo the one in Madrid?
- Competition is healthy. We're not aiming to one-up anyone or anything like that. Cristóbal and I discussed this during a one-on-one at the Residencia de Estudiantes in Madrid, and by the end of the meeting, it was clear that his Quijote and mine have nothing to do with each other. I can also say that one of the ideas was to do an exchange, bringing Halffter's Quijote to the Liceo and mine to the Real.
- Is there a possibility of taking it on tour?
- Since it's a co-production between the Liceu and the Maestranza, it would make sense to take it to Seville. But there's an additional challenge that La Fura is aware of: the complexity of the set design, which requires very specific theaters. In anticipation, they are designing a simplified set solution for smaller venues. On my end, I also didn't want to create a massive work that would be impossible to scale down. The orchestra I'm using might be surprising because it's not overly ambitious, quite the opposite. I've deliberately kept it limited.
- What headline would you like to read in the press the day after the premiere of this "Quijote"?
- I'm terrible with titles. To the point that one of my works is called Título a determinar.
Carles Padrissa
- How do you see the current state of opera from your perspective as a man of the theater?
- This is a good time for opera, understood as something capable of bringing together various elements, sometimes as operatic installations, operatic theater, and its derivatives, where music and theater weave together other arts like literature, poetry, film, or video, into a whole. It seems to me that creators who once moved to film are now, when almost everything has been done in cinema, returning to live performances.
- And this decision to get so deeply involved in it?
- After doing three staged cantatas, we felt ready to take on the postgraduate challenge of creating a new opera, which we've titled Don Quijote en Barcelona. Because everyone thinks Don Quixote was only in La Mancha. That's why we were excited to stage it ourselves, as Catalans, acting as a sort of agents, finding the composer and the librettist. The composer, from Madrid, seemed mature enough to write an opera of this scale, with sixty musicians, which is not something just anyone can do. But he proved from the start that he was more than capable. And a bit further south, in Andalusia, we found Justo Navarro, who wrote the libretto. What excites us most about all this is premiering a new opera; an opera for the year 2000 that we have been the driving force behind.
Josep Pons
"When you work with good musicians, the difficulty isn't in the notes"
The tireless Josep Pons has the honor of musically leading the premiere of El Quijote from the pit, in his role as associate conductor of the Liceu, where he is making his operatic debut in this new chapter of the theater's life. In the first season, he has only conducted a symphonic concert. Pons is the conductor of the Orquesta Ciudad de Granada, which he considers an excellent ensemble. He has just recorded an album with them featuring works by Stravinsky -The Firebird and Card Game- and recently succeeded with The Magic Flute in a production by Comediants. Diversifying his activities, next November he will conduct a production of El amor brujo in Venice, directed by Wernicke, and in April, Pan y toros at the Teatro de la Zarzuela in Madrid.
- Before the premiere of the "Quijote de Madrid" last season, its conductor, Pedro Halffter Caro, claimed he was facing one of the great scores of the century. What is your position regarding the "Quijote de Barcelona"?
- This Quijote is a magnificent work created by great artists. The most important thing, besides the fact that the text, music, and staging are of enormous quality, is that it is a collective effort, where everyone has done their part. In this way, the work has achieved a format similar to that achieved at the beginning of the century by the Stravinsky-Diaghilev tandem. In this case, the catalyst would be La Fura dels Baus, which, after working with pre-written works and designed scripts, has decided to undertake a team effort: La Fura, the librettist, and the composer working intensely together over the two years spent on the creation process. I asked Carles Padrissa to present the opera to the orchestra, which is a character like any other but is never considered. He did, and the musicians were thrilled with the result and the way they were treated because no one had ever told them about the show they were going to perform.
- Here, music, words, and action are equally prioritized. Does the work of La Fura help or distort the orchestra?
- The interaction of the staging contributes to the overall spectacle. It neither helps nor distracts the music. Moreover, they have always consulted me about any doubts, such as whether the choir could sing certain passages from one place or another. They are very respectful of the music because they aim to achieve the highest possible level in the overall production.
- In the previous stage of the Liceu, you conducted works like "The Turn of the Screw" or "The Lighthouse," usually modern operas. Now you are taking on "El Quijote". Are you not afraid of being pigeonholed as an "expert in contemporary works"?
- People tend to pigeonhole. But I don't think at this stage they will do that with me. I do contemporary music because I feel I should, and because I enjoy it and like it, but I've also done many classics, as evidenced by my discography with Harmonia Mundi, including extensive work around Falla and composers from a hundred years ago. And in opera, among other titles, I've done The Barber of Seville and a lot of Mozart.
- Between a repertory work and a contemporary one, where do you find more difficulties?
- They present different challenges. Recently, I conducted a program featuring Ravel, Schoenberg, and Brahms. The difficulty was in reconciling the transparent spirit of La Valse with the expressionist corrosion that gradually eats away at it. Then, figuring out how to give Brahms' Second Symphony the balance it requires without overdoing it, because it's easy to fall into a heavy, "choucroute" Brahms. That's the real challenge. When you work with good musicians, the difficulty isn't in the notes.
- Von Bülow advocated for conductors to memorize the scores. Is this "Quijote" a "score-in-the-head" or a "head-in-the-score" situation?
- That depends on the person. Furtwängler never took the score off the stand. But any work needs to be deeply internalized for the sake of the dramatic pulse. It doesn't matter if the composer is José Luis Turina or J. S. Bach.